16

Given that in recent times, spam comes in waves, it is useful to be able to quickly report/get rid of spam posts. For that, I propose that the UI be changed, so that flags for spam (and perhaps moderator attention) can be cast without having to open the individual posts. That should save some time flagging the spam and thus the time the spam is visible.

Artist's rendition of a possible implementation: The normal question overview layout with the addition of a flag symbol next to every post for users to flag said posts

That flag pop-up should probably only feature the options to flag for spam and moderator attention, as the other flags require having a closer look at the post.

Example of spam from SU as there is concern that one might not recognize spam from the overview alone: example for some spam posts on SU

For the feature to do more good than harm I would recommend

  • making this a privilege, unlocked after n-numbers of helpful spam-flags.
  • Running the new UI as a A/B experiment for a while to see:
    • If the UI change helps at all
    • and if people misuse it/ there is an increase in false positives.
18
  • 7
    And you know for sure that they are spam, in all cases of this flag being available, how exactly?
    – Nij
    Commented Jan 29 at 10:07
  • 14
    @Nij I'm not sure why you'd think a title like "(Expedia)π»π‘œπ“Œ 𝓁𝒢𝓉𝑒 𝒸𝒢𝓃 π“Žπ‘œπ“Š 𝒸𝒢𝓃𝒸𝑒𝓁 π‘œπ“ƒ 𝐸𝓍𝓅𝑒𝒹𝒾𝒢?" (sic) is not spam when you encounter it on Super User. Especially considering there is a very big and continuous spam wave against that site promoting support numbers. A lot of them for Expedia.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 29 at 10:13
  • 3
    @Nij go to superuser wait for 2-3 minutes while looking for new questions, things like "Can you buy refundable airline tickets on XYZ?" with the questions expert also showing phone number and such will pop up, as of now i have a 100% success rate when reporting spam on SU
    – B-Tech
    Commented Jan 29 at 10:14
  • 7
    @Nij and because you do seem unsure whether that would be spam, let me give you few more titles that you would have seen at the same time, since they were posted within seconds of each other: 1. Does Expedia charge a cancellation fee?‭ 2. What does fully refundable property mean?‭ 3. What is the refundable option on Expedia?‭ 4. Faqs-Answer-what does fully refundable mean on expedia? 5. what does fully refundable mean on expedia? 6. Is Priceline actually fully refundable?‭ 7. How do I contact Facebook support to get my "account back"? (((Recovery + Renewal "Techniques" )))
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 29 at 10:17
  • 3
    @Nij this was posted just now on MSE: i.sstatic.net/n1xuDzPN.png I've blurred out the phone numbers. It's part of the same spam wave, for the record.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 29 at 10:25
  • 9
    Perhaps a real image is more convincing. Commented Jan 29 at 10:26
  • 8
    I went to SU to check for myself. And indeed, the spam posts pop up within seconds.
    – Velvet
    Commented Jan 29 at 10:32
  • 8
    If anyone else goes over, there is a chat regarding spam accounts if you wish to contribute. I got no more flags left for today :/
    – B-Tech
    Commented Jan 29 at 10:34
  • 4
    Go to Charcoal HQ and get the Fire userscript. That is the fastest way to flag spam.
    – CPlus
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:02
  • 4
    @VLAZ Those questions are obvious spam on SU - but what about on Travel? It's not always possible to know for certain that something's spam just from the title. I've even seen people post spammy-seeming titles on legit posts to get attention. :/
    – Catija
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:11
  • 1
    @Catija I've already said it on the answer but: if it's not clear, I'd expect users to not flag. At least not from the question list.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:12
  • 4
    You can't expect that, though, @VLAZ Expectations and reality are frequently not the same. If it goes wrong, you end up with mods having to spend more time addressing the situation by sending out mod messages to tell people to stop flagging because they have no clue what they're doing. Maybe on small sites, that's OK - but on SO, that'd be a huge amount of work.
    – Catija
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:13
  • 2
    @VLAZ This is about visibility, though. It's absurdly easy to miss the flag option on posts. It's just the small "flag" text on a big blob of post. Having dozens of flag icons in a column on a question list is far more eye-catching.
    – Catija
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:15
  • 2
    Maybe this could work on the Questions page, where you see a preview excerpt of the question, but definitely not on the Home page. Sure, a lot of spam is obvious from the title alone, but not all. I think allowing people to spam flag questions just from the title alone is far too dangerous.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Jan 29 at 20:39
  • 3
    Though having a spam queue might have merit. Anything with one flag could go in and it would give mods another data source for spam account deletion
    – Journeyman Geek
    Commented Jan 30 at 2:54

4 Answers 4

15

I understand where this request is coming from - I've spent hours removing spam wave posts on sites that are struggling and it would have been convenient to have access to flag without opening the question first. Even still, I don't think I would have wanted this feature added.

My primary concern with this request is that it only allows spam flags from the homepage (with the possible addition of mod attention) - which means that there is a likelihood that people might start flagging things incorrectly - for example, spam flagging questions that are clearly off topic - but not spam - as spam to save themselves a click through to the question itself.

Of course, no one should do this - that doesn't mean they won't. Particularly considering this request doesn't include any limitations about which users have this option. With only 15 reputation required for the privilege, far more users have the ability to flag posts than many other actions. When you give people an icon to flag, they will inevitably use it - often incorrectly.

In reviewing flags on various sites over the years, I've found people would frequently select the incorrect reasons for flags - or flag posts that shouldn't have been flagged at all. And, while most flags can be cast incorrectly without any impact on the poster, spam flags automatically downvote the post, which can be harmful in cases where the flag is unwarranted.

That said, most flag reasons can't be determined from the home page, so expanding the menu much beyond spam, abusive, and maybe off topic closure doesn't make much sense.

And this is all in addition to users not being able to see the full body of the post to be certain it's truly spam. Maybe if the flag UI in this situation had a post preview to encourage confirmation of the flag reason - which would also allow an expansion of the options available - that would assuage concerns more but that becomes a much bigger change and doesn't differ much from the status-quo.

For that reason, while I understand the request, I don't think it should be implemented as described for all users on the platform - or even limited to users with the association bonus. Instead, for users particularly active in flagging spam, I'd recommend using userscripts to add such options, assuming that's possible. Perhaps an expansion of the FIRE userscript that Charcoal has that works on question lists instead of in chat?

Additionally, if a site is experiencing a huge spam wave - particularly one lasting multiple days - there are settings that CMs can adjust that may reduce the volume of spam.

12
  • I wouldn't determine off-topic from a title only. Often people write bad title unrelated to their actual question
    – Starship
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:10
  • 2
    I did say "maybe" - there are absolutely cases on MSE where questions for SO are asked instead - there's no need to see the post to know those should be closed.
    – Catija
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:12
  • 10
    If we're going to be using engineering time for anything I'd much prefer it goes towards spam prevention rather than something like this. It's clear the current filters and blocks aren't sufficient, and while the community's tools are powerful (Smokey's working overtime on this spam wave), it's just not enough. Improvements to the system-level blocks have to be made if this is to see worthwhile improvement.
    – Spevacus Mod
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:18
  • 2
    @Spevacus - agreed! While handling spam is important, it's far better for effort to be put into further tools to prevent it entirely. This FR is a bandaid for an injury that should have been prevented.
    – Catija
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:21
  • @Spevacus that would require things like making new accounts harder to create and i dont think that is gonna happen
    – B-Tech
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:22
  • 1
    @A-Tech Honestly, this FR is unlikely to be picked up if it will take more than a simple change. Having to add A/B testing makes this way more of a project than they're likely to do as a community ask. It's frustrating, but - in my experience - this sort of change is far better done as a userscript by those people who really want to take action because it's not something that the bulk of users want or need - which tends to be what dev time is spent on.
    – Catija
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:27
  • 3
    @A-Tech We don't even need to target account creation. Improving the filters that prevent posting once it's been drafted would be a good start. If you're putting an obfuscated phone number in a post, you're likely up to no good (de-obfuscation is somewhat easy, emphasis on the somewhat). Further, other spam limiting blocks would be beneficial that prevent access. They spent a whole initiative improving the prevention of unauthorized access to our content. Surely they can spend just a bit more to prevent inauthentic usage.
    – Spevacus Mod
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:31
  • 5
    @A-Tech I mean... the company could utilize a lot of what Charcoal already knows to prevent likely-spam posts from being created. These filters could even be disabled most of the time on most sites and only activated when some number of posts in the last hour on a site were deleted as spam - so the site would go into "spam wave mode" or something, which would stay in the high scrutiny state until blocked post attempts drops to normal levels.
    – Catija
    Commented Jan 29 at 16:36
  • @Spevacus I 100% agree that spam should be prevented if possible and there is a lot SE could do in terms of filters. But I do think that something at very least in the sense of this fr should be implemented: Lowering the barrier & increasing the visibility for (spam)-flagging. I dislike userscripts (generally) as a solution as they only reach those already invested, this reaches more casual users.
    – B-Tech
    Commented Jan 29 at 17:21
  • 5
    @A-Tech I'd argue that more casual users aren't flagging spam aggressively enough to need this, or be improved by it.
    – Spevacus Mod
    Commented Jan 29 at 17:23
  • @Spevacus Funny, I'd argue the opposite: That it could improve it as per lowering the barrier for doing so. :) In the end there are tons of reasons for doing or not doing anything. Generally, I am much rather inclined to a prototyping-ish approach and see what sticks, if that's not the culture of SE I'll stop advocating for such types of FR.
    – B-Tech
    Commented Jan 29 at 17:39
  • 3
    @A-Tech I'd say it's more that there simply isn't the staff dedicated to the public site to do these sorts of things in many cases. I never want to leave people feeling that they shouldn't bring FRs to meta for community discussion but it's at least worth pointing out that the bulk of FRs - even well-supported ones - never get built... heck, many bugs never get fixed because there's simply not enough staff and the bugs often aren't harmful enough to lead to major problems. This is kinda why the culture of user scripts (StackApps) among power users exists. People got tired of waiting.
    – Catija
    Commented Jan 29 at 17:45
8

A counter proposal would be a spam queue - have posts with one or more spam flags in a queue, tie it into the 'same' notification system. Have a list style history for mods to go through and nuke flags. Maybe tying it into smoke detector in some fashion would be useful or using an API for analytics.

You could review the body and title of the post at once, have high impact, relatively low fuss spam review, and ways to use flags more tactically.

1
  • 3
    A spam queue kinda exists and we call it Charcoal HQ
    – Starship
    Commented Jan 30 at 12:45
5

I think this is too confusing for a page shown to everyone. Even I'm not sure exactly how this is supposed to work given that questions may have answers, some deleted. Consider an entry on the homepage that says: "Innocent question title modified by obvious spammer name". There are also a number of titles out there to valid questions that somewhat resemble low effort spam (e.g., the title is a quote from the middle of a news article, no quotation marks or context in the title).

On the other hand, consider a view like post feedback in the 10k tools, which has title, preview, author, etc. AND a button to show the full post AND lists both questions and answers. (Search is similar but doesn't allow you to expand the post on the same page.)

If we had a view like this for all new posts, it would be a convenient way to make sure you're missing neither good nor bad (think about new answers on posts where other edits are happening). It would make sense to have flagging buttons next to each post in a view like that.

Quick and dirty screenshot:

Post feedback: title, preview, show full answer

-1

To avoid people flagging posts where it is not obvious just from the title it is spam, we should do the following things if this is implemented:

  1. Only have this on questions (you can't usually know if answers are spam, generally from a question title, and if the question is spam then no point wasting a flag on the spam answers too)
  2. Don't have this any post that has gotten an upvote (as these are almost certainly not obvious spam from the title)
  3. Don't have this on posts which have survived for a certain amount of time (none of these posts in this spam wave have survived over an hour, obvious spam posts tend to be deleted quite quickly)
4
  • 2
    I'd have hoped that if it's not obvious, then people won't be flagging. I don't really see much point in restricting the flagging. We don't do that in any other case - users are still allowed to redflag posts with upvotes, for example.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 29 at 15:35
  • 1
    @VLAZ Yes, but redflagging with the title only should really not be done outside this specific scenario or similar, normally you should look at the post. If someone upvotes a post, it means the found it good/useful, and is worthy of looking at the full post before deciding its spam
    – Starship
    Commented Jan 29 at 15:36
  • 6
    It could be made a privilege, unlocked after n-numbers of helpful spam-flags.
    – B-Tech
    Commented Jan 29 at 15:39
  • 1
    @A-Tech Honestly I think that would be better than this idea.
    – Starship
    Commented Jan 29 at 15:40

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